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Smith DNA Group R-M269-8 Christopher Smith b 1591 ENG> VA

Smith DNA Matched Group GRP-R-M269-8

discussion of the Smith Official DNA Project group R-M269-8  that includes lineages that we believe all match together, even when the specific paper trail linkages between ancestors are unknown or cannot be proven.

Christopher Smith b c 1591 ENG> VA, Harrison G Smith b GA, Henry Garrison Smith b c 1832 SC. Descendants in Brown TX, Pickens SC

(5/30/2014 Views 220)


Few things to consider: First, matches in the group are made on the basis of 37 markers or more, or if there are circumstances such as 2 brothers that post. 12 marker matches are so prevalent and general that they are not useful for narrowing down potential matches. Second, as I mentioned to you previously, the person someone puts in the Most Distant Ancestor field is doing it based on their own attestation. That's why you see, so often, ancestral locations all over the map. As FTDNA says "To validate our Reference Population set we tested them against a list of well studied benchmark groups whose ancestral background in the literature has been well attested. Additionally we also cross-checked against individuals with attested provenance within the GeneByGene DNA database." - Given that second sentence, the attested provenance would be someone saying that he or she believes the origin to be X." 

Third, if you believe you have source documents to prove a lineage, you need to supply it here rather than refer to trees or autosomal data, which beyond several generations is very difficult to triangulate and depends upon solid trees, since one cannot know which surname/person is indicated by an autosomal match. 

Here's what happened, specifically, with Christopher Smith. Christopher Smith is one of those lines that quite a few people have as an ancestor, and, as it happened, there were at least 3 main groups that did not match, that all claimed him. We, as a very large discussion group, looked at the lineages, source documents, and determined that one of the participants in particular had a very good, sourced claim for the line. Every single person in all 3 groups agreed that he did and therefore, he at this point has the claim to Christopher Smith. If someone comes along with better documentation that can lay a paper trail claim to knock this group off its throne, that's fine, but the above does not meet that criteria. I am going to invite the group to come over and make their own comments as they would like, but have to say, frankly, that to demand that people must change their lineage when a whole lot of thought and effort has gone into this so far, and on the basis of one MDA ancestor at 12 markers that believes he has a Polish ancestor, will not cause a change. What I suggest you do is list a line of descent with source documents as proof.

I am glad, however, that you have expressed yourself here, this gives opportunity for others to corroborate what you say, add more, or challenge, so it's good. 


Argumentation for relatedness of Frances W "Frank" Smith (SWW Group R-M269-9) to lineage of James H. Smith and Susannah (Dowis) Chapman
Earliest to most recent records:
James A Smith and Elizabeth Winkler are married in White Co, GA, 10 Nov 1867.
James A. Smith - Age 23 - Born abt 1847 in SC
(Family 427, Subdivision 135, White Co, GA: Page 49/93 on***
Elizabeth (Winkler)*
Mary J. Smith - Age 1 - Born abt 1869**
James (H.) Smith - Age 74 - Born abt 1796 in SC
Susannah Smith - Age 64 - Born abt 1806 in SC
(Family 438, Subdivision 135, White Co, GA: Page 51/93 on***
*We know this is Elizabeth Winkler because this Smith family is living directly next to TWO Winkler families.
**Mary J. Smith ties into 1880 record.
***James A. Smith and Susannah Smith are in the same subdivision only 11 families apart.
Susannah Smith - Age 75 - Born abt 1805 in S. Carolina
(House 133, Family 136, Mossy Creek Militia District, White Co, GA: Page 15/24 on
James A. Smith - Age 33 - Born abt 1847 in S. Carolina
Elizabeth (Winkler)*
Mary Smith - Age 11 - Born abt 1869**
(House 134, Family 137, Mossy Creek Militia District, White Co, GA: Page 15/24 on
**See 1870 record for person's previous entry.
On page 15/24 of this 1880 census record, we also find "Larence Smith", age 36, born abt 1844 in S. Carolina, and his family. His wife's name is Margaret. Laurence Smith's lineage appears to be easily linked to James H. Smith and Susannah Dowis Chapman by earlier censuses. (I will not show this work here.)
This official census record was probably destroyed, as many records of 1890 were. The partial 1890 census on does not show a James A Smith listed.
James Smith and Martha Allen are married in White Co, GA, 8 Nov 1891
James A. Smith - Age 52 - Born abt Sep 1847 in GA? (I can't resolve why he would have stated he was born in GA when previously he states SC).
(House 138, Family 138, Blue Ridge, White, GA: Page 7/10 on
Martha Allen (James A. Smith's second marriage)
Francis W Smith - Age 2 - Born abt 1898
(James' two marriages (Winkler-1, Allen-2) are well documented by a descendant and both marriage records can be found in the White Co, GA archives)
Onward from 1900, the Francis W Smith line is easy to follow with little confusion.
Francis Marion Smith is connected to the line of Harman Smith and we can see via a comparison on that my group (R-M269-9) and Harmon Smith's group (R-M269-8) do not match even distantly. This is based upon the claim of Harmon’s line by one of the Group 8 members.
Keep in mind, I have found my Raglands and Lipscombs in Group 8’s trees, and I know for certain that a 66/67 yDNA match of mine is descended from the Raglands and Lipscombs. This was never addressed by Group 8.
Christopher A. Smith


Further, please see the following highlighted Google Books search result for information on Christopher Smith and Catherine Snelson's line.


Please note that Francis Marion Smith's line is not mentioned, but an Ambrose Smith is as a brother of a John O. Smith, a cousin to John Snelson Smith.


Christopher Smith

Group R-M269-9 Contact


Regarding Mary Mauldin, d/o Rucker Mauldin:

I found a preview of a book on Google Books that, amazingly, has a snippet that seems to provide an alternative hypothesis on who Mary Mauldin married.

It is titled "Wills-deeds and Family Histories, Volume 1". It's author is our very favorite! Linda G. Cheek!! Yes!

The first snippet says (I've stylized the font for emphasis): 

Obedience Smith (Biddy) d/o Wade Smith who married Mary Mauldin —Mary Mauldin d/o Rucker Mauldin and Ann Miller Moore ... Govan Smith s/o Harmon Smith need proof Much work has to be done on these Smiths in order to prove who the ... (believe youngest child) also called Kitt Smith b. ca 1786 m. supposedly Martha Mauldin b. between 1780-1790 Christopher Smith and Thomas Smith were in ...

Again, I have not modified the text of the snippit, only stylized where I thought important.

Now who among us has this book at the ready??

Christopher Smith

Group R-M269-9 Contact


Additional Mauldin information:

See this page:

Amazingly, they have Kitt Smith marrying Mary Mauldin. I believe he was actually her son.

To see the relevance of the Mauldin surname with Group 8's ancestry, enter (accurately, please) the entire yDNA marker sequence into's search program. You will see NPEs for a Mauldin and Coker line. No coincidence.

Christopher Smith

Group R-M269-9 Contact

  (1/28/2018) WCS5656

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For the Smith Official DNA Project (All Locations) a minimum of 25, or better, 37 YDNA markers, is strongly recommended. Many times one can appear to match other kits but the match falls apart after 12 markers. We do not attempt to match kits into groups on less than 25 with the exception of a strong paper trail or known family kinship with another tester.


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